If you truely believe in the bible, how come women aren't freaking out over Timothy 1 vs 9-15? Here is the quote...
9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing鈥攊f they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
A question for christians? Another instance of the Pick and Choose Literalism that Christians practice, I see.
If those people truly live, as they say they do, by the Bible, then I must be missing something when I drive past churches on Sunday, and see the women in their furs and finery.
Sometimes I think Christians are a little flexible with the truth, when discussing their relationship with the Truth.
A question for christians? A lot of people overlook this scripture....either that or justify it.
Personally I think it was just meant for THOSE TIMES and doesn't apply to today.
*looks up*
Did I just justify that scripture?? :-o
I think I did. :P
A question for christians? What's there to freak out about? Do you also go by women should be married to the man who rapes them? You pick one thing from the Bible you pick it all, it's not a cafeteria selection. That is outdated, and so is women being silent to men. Today's society ensures all are equal, and it also ensures women don't have to marry the man who raped them. You want a society like that, go live 2000 years ago.
A question for christians? Why would I freak out over that?
Women should dress modestly, as should all people.
Women should learn in submission, as should all people. It keeps order in classrooms, and in church services.
And in verse 12, it's SUPPOSED to read that women are not to USURP authority. In other words, if a man is a preacher (or deacon, or priest) of a church, no one (including women) should take the authority from him.
Again, why would I freak out over that? There are many instances of strong women in the Bible, who teach and lead. Deborah comes to mind. And Phoebe, who was the deaconess of the church in Cenchrea (Romans 16).
A question for christians? its part pf a letter written by a man in a patriarchal society I agree with the modesty part as in its our deeds that show our faith not our clothing but as for women being saved through child bearing I am sure he was wrong. not all women have children and it is only Jesus who can save us from sin.
A question for christians? Well what to you want them to do? Whats your point?
A question for christians? dinosaurs came before Adam and Eve.
Adam was warned about the apple. Adam did not warn Eve. So go figure, it was man's fault because he was a ********.
frankly, I think the physical content of the bible can't be adapted for today's enviroment and society. Only the moral content - which is what it's all about! Basically, I think that passage is saying a bit that a women should not be indecent (and a man shouldn't). Then it just is claptrap. Not everything is sacred.
A question for christians? i can see why it would be hard for modern women to not take offense, but it isn't implied as such. the times were certainly different and at the heart of it these virtues are true from Biblical teaching. to be silent doesn't mean to keep quiet, but to give the headship of the house to the husband... not to quarrel with him over authority. women were made different and men were made different. we aren't the same, but that isn't the same as saying we aren't equal. the duty of the husband complements the position of the woman very well.
A question for christians? My wife and I have no problem with it...or any other part of the Word of God.
What is your problem?
A question for christians? I only wear long skirts and modest shirts, I don't like jewelry and most of my cloths are custom made at home by my mother-in-law because most of the skirts sold in stores have some kind of slit up the side or are tight fitting and show too much. I was not always like this. I became a born again Christian, but before that I wore expensive jeans and anything that was in style. I got convicted of it and started wearing skirts and dressing very modest. I now feel very uncomfortable and not very feminine in jeans.
A question for christians? With what would the problem lie?
That's 1 Timothy 2:9-15
"9 Likewise I desire the women to adorn themselves in well-arranged dress, with modesty and soundness of mind, not with styles of hair braiding and gold or pearls or very expensive garb, 10 but in the way that befits women professing to reverence God, namely, through good works."
%26gt;%26gt;A Christian isn't supposed to draw attention to themselves, but rather to the message of the Kingdom.
"11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. "
%26gt;%26gt; Most people think of abusiveness when they think of submission. But that's not the case. The Bible points out that God, is a God of order and not chaos. Even though women are told to be submissive to their husband, husband's are submissive to Christ and Christ is submissive to God himself. (1 Cor. 11:3)
"13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression. "
%26gt;%26gt; Recall the creation story in Genesis. The serpent deceived Eve first.
"15 However, she will be kept safe through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and sanctification along with soundness of mind."
%26gt;%26gt;%26gt; No problems there...
I just found an excellent article about those very verses. It's a bit much to read, but it's really good!
"Why did Paul write regarding a Christian wife: 鈥淪he will be kept safe through childbearing鈥?鈥? Timothy 2:15.
What does the context of this verse reveal about what Paul meant? Under inspiration he was giving counsel on the role of the Christian woman in the congregation. He wrote: 鈥淚 desire the women to adorn themselves in well-arranged dress, with modesty and soundness of mind, not with styles of hair braiding and gold or pearls or very expensive garb, but in the way that befits women professing to reverence God, namely, through good works.鈥?(1 Timothy 2:9, 10) Paul was urging his Christian sisters to be modest, to be balanced in choosing personal adornment, and to be 鈥榓dorned鈥?with good works.
Next, Paul explained the headship arrangement in the congregation, saying: 鈥淚 do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.鈥?(1 Timothy 2:12; 1 Corinthians 11:3) He explains the basis for this arrangement by showing that while Adam was not deceived by Satan, Eve 鈥渨as thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression.鈥?How could a Christian woman be protected against Eve鈥檚 error? Paul answers: 鈥淗owever, she will be kept safe through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and sanctification along with soundness of mind.鈥?(1 Timothy 2:14, 15) What did Paul mean by these words?
Some translators seem to imply that a woman鈥檚 salvation depends on her having children. For example, Today鈥檚 English Version says: 鈥淎 woman will be saved through having children.鈥?However, this interpretation of Paul鈥檚 words is not accurate. Many scriptures show that to be saved, a person must come to know Jehovah, believe in Jesus, and exercise faith, demonstrating that faith by works. (John 17:3; Acts 16:30, 31; Romans 10:10; James 2:26) In addition, Paul did not mean that safe childbirth is guaranteed to believing women. Women have come safely through the experience of giving birth whether they were believers or not. And sadly, some have died giving birth, whether they were believers or not.鈥擥enesis 35:16-18.
Paul鈥檚 additional counsel regarding women later in this same letter helps us to understand what he meant. He warns of some younger widows who were 鈥渦noccupied, gadding about to the houses; yes, not only unoccupied, but also gossipers and meddlers in other people鈥檚 affairs, talking of things they ought not.鈥?What was Paul鈥檚 advice? He continues: 鈥淭herefore I desire the younger widows to marry, to bear children, to manage a household, to give no inducement to the opposer to revile.鈥濃€? Timothy 5:13, 14.
Paul highlights the positive role of women in the family arrangement. Occupied with such activities as 鈥榖earing children and managing a household,鈥?a woman who continued 鈥渋n faith and love and sanctification along with soundness of mind鈥?would not gravitate toward conduct that is not upbuilding. Her spirituality would be preserved, or 鈥渒ept safe.鈥?(1 Timothy 2:15) Following such a course would help many young women to avoid Satan鈥檚 snares.
Paul鈥檚 words to Timothy remind all of us, men and women, to be profitably occupied. God鈥檚 Word advises all Christians: 鈥淜eep strict watch that how you walk is not as unwise but as wise persons.鈥濃€擡phesians 5:15."
(Information taken from May 1, 2005 Watchtower, Questions from readers- published by Jehovah's Witnesses)
A question for christians? christian women should dress modestly... nothing wrong with that, you wont catch me wearing fish-nets or tarty stuff outside the bedroom. christians are stuck in the stone age, clevage is acceptable, high heels.. whatever.
timothy 9 i translate as; dont dress like a prostitute, but with beauty, grace, decency.. Don't go over the top when it comes to vanity, and material possessions. But do good and give time to ministry, the church. That inner beauty is better than outside beauty.
"Since prayer is at the bottom of all this, what I want mostly is for men to pray鈥攏ot shaking angry fists at enemies but raising holy hands to God. And I want women to get in there with the men in humility before God, not primping before a mirror or chasing the latest fashions but doing something beautiful for God and becoming beautiful doing it.
11-15I don't let women take over and tell the men what to do. They should study to be quiet and obedient along with everyone else. Adam was made first, then Eve; woman was deceived first鈥攐ur pioneer in sin!鈥攚ith Adam right on her heels. On the other hand, her childbearing brought about salvation, reversing Eve. But this salvation only comes to those who continue in faith, love, and holiness, gathering it all into maturity. You can depend on this. " thats the message version.
"11Let a woman in quietness learn in all subjection,
12and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness, " young literals translation.
The submission is directed at wife/husband relationships, not all woman as i suspected.
ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26. to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27. and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
28. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
wifes are told to submit, but then its not as if husbands have it easy either! we submit as the head of our family the husband/father is responsible and answerable to God for the decisions made. Wives submit, but are often good advisers. Its not like submission is giving over all freedom. with submission comes peace, if done correctly by both wife and husband. i dont see what there is to freak over about, there are many translations and each verse is open to personal understandings.
A question for christians? What a good idea! Have you been to a Shul lately, where
everyone talks at once. No wonder they keep saying shhhhh.
A woman can teach or preach anywhere, she just needs to be
submitted to her husband.
What this is talking about is discipling according to the Jewish way to Learn. A Rabbi normally had about 12 disciples %26amp; this is about that %26amp; if women want to learn they
can in peace %26amp; harmony without being disturbed %26amp; at rest.
Paul tells us in 2 Cor 11:3 that Adam was the one who sinned,
Eve was deceived %26amp; became involved in Adam's sin. I do
believe that if Adam had not eaten, things would have been
made right, because he ate, sin came into the world.
Having children does not save women, YHWH God's plan is
for women to have children %26amp; as she devoted herself to that,
she is in harmony with YHWH's plan, as she trusts %26amp; lives a life set- apart for YHWH God.
Many women taught men in scripture, Lydia in Acts 16:14,40.
Priscilla in Acts 18:26 %26amp; Phoebe in Rom 16:1.
A question for christians? I do believe the Bible, and I try, to follow in it's advice, all of it, including your citations, I am not perfect, and so I cannot do it perfectly, but the main thing is, that, I do try to do my best. There is actually nothing to freak out about.
